The Return of Amber Délice

Parker

Welcome to a sex workers Guide to the Galaxy. I'm your host, Parker Westwood. And this week, we have our first repeat guest. I have the absolute pleasure of speaking to the one the only Amber Délice yet again, she reached out to me about a topic that she was rather excited to discuss on the podcast and I obviously was here for it. The title that she gave this topic was courageous conversations with clients, which, and we all love a good alliteration. So, of course, I said yes. So, we dove into this idea and there's a lot about communicating boundaries clearly, while also maintaining a connection, leaving room for there to be still intimacy and vulnerability after setting a boundary. And there are new rapid-fire questions, because I didn't want to ask Amber the same questions again at the end. So, stay tuned to the end to find out what these rapid-fire questions are. Amber also gets the chance to talk about a group that they started, a group of sex workers that meets regularly called Tether as kind of like a support network to be able to discuss things that we may not get to discuss with other people in our lives being in the work that we're in. So that's rather exciting. It's, it's just a really great episode. Amber is just so easy to talk to, and yeah, and I just I love I love hearing her voice editing this was great. Yeah, so I guess before we dive in, I just want to say thank you for tuning in, I am infinitely grateful that you all choose to listen to this podcast of all the podcasts that are out there. In the ep-, episode that I did two weeks ago, kind of reflecting on the six month mark of doing this podcast, I li-, listed a bunch of other sex worker podcasts in the show notes. So be sure to go back and check those out as well. If this is a podcast you like I'm sure one of those, or multiple of those are going to spark your interest as well. So, let's just dive into this episode and hear what Amber has to say about courageous conversations. Let's do it. All right, we're here with Amber Délice yet again, the first repeat guest on the show. Welcome, back.

Amber Délice

Thank you. I'm honored, I'm honored to be the first repeat guest.

Parker

I was really excited when you reached out with a with a topic idea. For those of you for those of the listeners who maybe didn't hear your last episode, or if this is the first one they're tuning into, why don't you introduce yourself yet again, name, pronoun, where you're based, and what kind of sex work you do.

Amber Délice

I am Amber Délice, I am based in Boulder, Denver area of Colorado, my pronouns are she/her, and I am an escort.

Parker

Fantastic and it's so good to have you back. Last time, we talked a bit about curating date experiences to become more intimate, especially during COVID. With challenges that we face during that time, we talked a bit about dating but this time, you threw out the topic idea and it had a title and everything and I love you for that. Courageous conversations with clients and when I read that it sparked so many like ideas of how, how that could be interpreted in me. Would you expand a little bit on about what you meant by that and what it means for you?

Amber Délice

Yes, hmm. So, I think we can interpret it in a few ways but I think the first one that comes up for me and came up for me when I sent you the email was communicating boundaries. Also communicating when you have been hurt by the clients and being able to work through it and then also on like, the positive sort of future sense, like communicating what you want, what you desire, like, you know, what you what you desire from the relationship, how you can support them, how you want to be supported. I think when I think of courageous conversations, I think about like, going a little bit deeper, being vulnerable with each other, and something outside of the realm of like what is sort of stereotypically thought of as like the classic appointment where you're just like, hello, how are you? Like, everything's wonderful and then let's, you know, have a drink, let's have intimacy and then goodbye, like, but just sort of more like interweaving into like the deeper threads of each other's lives, obviously, for us in like, a way that is comfortable and safe. But yeah, all of that, all of that in a bundle.

Parker

Yeah, I think I'm really excited about this topic, because it is like as you, for me, at least, as I've gotten to have longer term relationships with clients there's like, though, that formula for like, the first date, or the first few dates is just like, it doesn't apply any longer. We're learning more about each other, there's less superficial stuff to talk about and so you do end up having these deeper relationships. And I think one of the things that you brought up in the email was learning how to be vulnerable and authentic without giving too much of yourself. Would you speak to your experience in that a little bit?

Amber Délice

Mm hmm. So, when I first started Amber, I definitely I feel like did what I think we see a lot of like newbie providers do, or we're just like, oh, I can create, like, a different character, and just be that person all the time and be that like, smaller aspect of self. And I definitely tried that and it did not work. And, and then, so I, I noticed in my life that I tend to learn and experience things on like a pendulum, like, I'll be like, I'm over here, you know, and I'm just gonna have this like, small aspect of my personality represented and then I'm like, no, that's not the way and then I swing back to the other side too far, where I'm like, oh, I'm going to be super vulnerable and like, share, you know, everything. And then I'm like, oh, wait, that's like too much. And not even that I started to share things that were too much like safety or information wise, but just things that were, I don't, I don't mean, I wouldn't say sacred but I have a thing about saying sacred it, meaning keeping it to yourself, but like sharing things that I want to keep between me and like my loved ones. And then feeling like resentment because of that, and then feeling resentment for, for the client, even though I was the one to offer the information. So, I think from experiencing like those two realms, then you kind of like, settle back into like, the center. And so, from there, like for me, what helps me now is embodiment and when I'm in the moment with a client, like staying connected to my body, and to my center, and like to my breath, and from there being able to notice, like, am I am I like drifting too far forward, like out of my body to share this information? And then why am I doing that? Am I doing that because I actually crave like a deeper connection with this client and I'm like overextending but then like, I can be in the moment, and like, the mindfulness and the awareness and like, come back and be like, okay, well, like, that's, that's great you want to be more connected, like how wonderful but like, what's the way I can do that and also, like, be in my, in my truth, and in my center? So, it's sort of a like, mindfulness and embodiment practice that I get better at every time but of course, I'm still on the journey of so.

Parker

Oh, absolutely. I um, I did a branding workshop with PS group and, and one of the things that,

Amber Délice

What is PS gourp?

Parker

PS group is there, like a branded, they help with branding and marketing strategy and specifically for sex workers, and like escorts that advertise online. They're also the group that did my website and they will be linked in the show notes. But they, when I did the branding workshop, and continued to work with them, there was one thing I kept trying to, like, take photos of me doing like ceramics and things like that and it just like didn't quite fit into my branding. And they reminded me like, hey, sometimes there are things you just should keep for yourself and like that are yours and yours alone and like, sure, it might come out with certain clients and that's fine but like, it's your like, that's yours and you don't have to work it into your brand. And I really needed to hear that because I, I'm definitely the kind of person that like, just my go to is to just show up with everything and extend myself a little too far.

Amber Délice

Mmmhmm yeah. I we were having this conversation in, I hosted a weekly group for sex workers called Tether, or for full service sex workers, and we were talking about this and how you know that when you move into a space, especially with a long term client, especially with, like the clients that like really deeply support us, and we really care for and are in our lives, like we, I think it's a natural tendency, especially as sex workers and people who are so empathic and who want to, like, be there sensually, emotionally, you know, as much as possible. It can be natural to, like, want to just like, give, give, give, and, and it is like, I think once, you know, for someone that is doing this, like, once you like, start figuring out or expressing, like, like, no, like, and this is for me, it can, I think the more you do it, the, the easier it feels, and then like the better it feels. And then it can also be like, almost playful, too, like I'm like, oh, no, this is this is all mine like, like, you can't see, like I, I gave one of my long-term clients, like a little tour of my, my new house. I just bought a house in Colorado and of like, the living room area and he was like, oh, like, like, let's go upstairs and I was like, on the on the camera and I was like, no my bedroom is all for me. Like, but like, thank you for asking. You know, it's like, yeah, I think it can be, it can be a really like delightful, empowering thing.

Parker

Oh, absolutely yeah. I am, I definitely had a similar thing where a client was like, wanting to meet at my personal residence and I was just like, No. There was a time where I considered seat like seeing clients in my, my personal space and not that that's not for everyone. I just knew that like, that would make the space feel like a workspace for me and I needed, I needed my space to be mine. So, would you expand on Tether a little bit? Like how that came about what it is? And, yeah.

Amber Délice

mans doing a job that is like: 1200

Parker

Yeah, that sounds fantastic. And I think it is so important, especially as sex workers, there's not a lot of places, we get to talk about that area of our lives and like all the ways that it influences like other parts of our lives, and it's really nice to feel reflected back. And so, I'm so glad that you started that. It's often times when we're looking for something, and we can't find it that's the sign that we have to start it

Amber Délice

As a yeah, yeah. Evelyn Savelli was here in Boulder and she and I were spending time together and I was telling her about kind of like the seedlings of the group. I hadn't thought too much about it yet but she said something that really stuck with me and she was like, there, there are some things that like only fellow full service sex workers can understand. Like, there's some things only providers can understand and we were talking about, like, obviously, the importance of therapy and all that, but it's like, it just really, like landed with me, I was like, that is so, so very true. Like therapists can of course, like hear us and reflect us and, and help and our, you know, civilian friends, but I really, I really think that this experience is so multifaceted that there are really, really some things that only fellow providers can, can really can really get so.

Parker

Yeah. I really, I love the name Tether, too, because it's, um, I mean, it just reminds me of like being having a Tether to self and sometimes we need other folks to remind us how to come back to ourselves. And like, in the conversation that we're going to be engaging in around like, these courageous conversations with clients and having boundaries and, and staying in touch with the self in order to maintain these relationships in a way that's healthy for all parties. Like I just love, and it's been important in my practice, this like cultivating a community to be grounded in who I am and what my values are. And I wonder if we can kind of use this moment to pivot to talking about boundaries and like, in maybe in the sense of like, boundaries coming from the self and like, what that's looked like, for you.

Amber Délice

Mm, yes. And I appreciate your, your direction and containership.

Parker

Thank you.

Amber Délice

Okay, so, so what is the, can you say the question again?

Parker

Yeah, so what, um, maybe, maybe it's not the greatest. It's not really a question. It's more of a concept that I've had in my head, but like, I've been thinking a lot about how boundaries are for me, and not for the people I'm creating the boundaries around, around and with and because I used to think that boundaries were like, I'm creating this boundary for you because you are doing this thing to me and now that I have done a bit more of like the healing work and, and grounding in myself, I'm recognizing that like, those boundaries are actually for me because I like I tend to be the one to overextend. Right? And like, all of those sorts of things. So maybe if you want to talk about an example of like, what boundaries have you drawn for yourself? And what that process looked like for you?

Amber Délice

Hmm, one kind of light one is coming up. And sometimes people ask me this, and I, I'm excited to share, like, how I navigated it. But so overnights, I feel like overnights tend to bring up boundaries for us, hopefully to name them. Because they I mean, even if it's, you know, like, not a client who's going to, like, try to paw us all night, like, there's still you know, we all have ways that we like to sleep, and can can actually fall asleep. And I think that so, for me, what I have done, when I have like a first overnight with a client is I will make sure that you know, usually after dinner when it's like we've gone to get a cocktail, I will approach it from a kind of playful, flirty way and I'll be like, you know, I want to have a conversation about, like sleeping together and like, how, how do you typically like to sleep? And I found when I asked that, and kind of like bring it up as opposed to you know, you know, especially for like a first overnight, you know, you're at dinner, and maybe there's like, a moment where you kind of just fell asleep or something. And it's like, I don't know, I like to talk about it and I think that talking and bringing it up in a in a playful way is fun. And so, you know, ask that question. And then usually, the men I've asked that to have all been like, well, you know, I like to cuddle, but then you know, I kind of need to fall asleep alone. Like I need to sleep like separate from someone, which is really convenient, because that's how I want to sleep. Yet and I mean, like of course if I did then, I'd have to say something but if I knew that had someone say like, oh, I like to you know, touch all night, like usually it's like, oh, like I get really hot so when I'm sleeping, I have to be apart. And then you know, whatever they say I'm like, oh, wow, like thanks for sharing that and like, this is how I like to sleep and like I love to cuddle, but then like, then I need my space but then in the morning, like I like to cuddle again. And you know, just like sharing things like that and framing them from a perspective of like, we're going on this like fun journey together and I want to make sure that we have the information that we need to have like the best time that we can have to like, have great intimacy and then like get some actual sleep. You know, and then, like, make a plan for the morning and then yeah, same thing in the morning of like, how do you like to wake up? Like, do you like coffee in the morning? Like, do you like just bring me coffee? And I don't know, I think was those kinds of things it's easier to be like sweet about it and like flirty and like it's a bit different when you know something's been someone's like, pushed you in a way and then you need to kind of like, come back and be like, that wasn't okay or that wasn't comfortable. But yeah.

Parker

Yeah. And I think thinking about that specific scenario of the, like, overnights and how do you how do you like to sleep? I think it's super easy for people to read into our like nocturnal body language, or each other's. Right? Like if, if someone likes to cuddle all night and you overheat and pull away, like it's really easy to read into that the wrong way. So, communicating about it beforehand is just a quick and easy and fun way to just nip all that in the bud.

Amber Délice

Mm hmm. Yeah.

Parker

So, talking about boundaries and sex work. What comes up a lot for me is more of these, like, the harder like harder boundaries, like that one that one's like a fun, easier sort of boundary but they're like. I personally have had situations where like, I had a, I, this was early oh my goodness. This was early, early Parker-era and I was just getting my sea legs and I had, baby Parker and I had a client who had been like. Do you know what Second Life is?

Amber Délice

I do yeah.

Parker

For listeners who don't, Second Life is a like a virtual alternate reality where you can like have a job and you have an avatar, and the idea was that you had a second life. And some people found it rather addicting, there was a whole like, sex scene, like a very, like BDSM oriented sex scene on Second Life.

Amber Délice

Yeah I must have missed that.

Parker

Yeah, I also remember like Apple computer had like a phase, like a lot of businesses were investing, there was virtual money involved, it became a whole thing. I don't know if it's still going because I don't pay attention. But this guy had played a lot of Second Life and lived out some fantasies on Second Life and so there was no conversat-, like, had no real awareness of consent language, and, like safety and, like checking in, after care, like, none of that stuff. And we had had a little bit of a conversation but I, I guess I like didn't, there were like, things I didn't think to ask because I hadn't had that experience yet and I ended up having to, like, hold a boundary with this person afterwards, a very, like, clear, like, I can't see you again, kind of boundary. Which sucked to have to do because I did think I didn't think he like meant anything harmful. But the idea of seeing him again, just like caused this bodily anxiety reaction, and I just like, couldn't lean into that. Um, I guess like, for sex workers we have, there's a thing that comes up for me in holding a boundary with clients. That is like fear of losing the client and because it's, that's our money. Rght? So how do you navigate this, like fear of losing a client and like having to hold these harder boundaries that could be taken offensively? Things like that.

Amber Délice

I started Amber at the end of: 2017

Parker

I think you did. Um, yeah, and I too have that similar experience of like, once I started to, I would like shake every time I would, like set a boundary, there's something about, I mean, I'm a people pleaser. And so like, and I have deep fear of conflict with people I know, I think with people, I don't know, I'm willing to, like, go for it but yeah, and I would just like shake when I would set a boundary and that's become less like that bodily reaction. But I also realized, too, that as I set boundaries, not even necessarily in person, but like over email, or, or whatever, I had less and less of that particular kind of client or that experience pop up to the point where like, I don't really have people pushing certain buttons any longer, because they just like, don't, it's like, well, no, I don't know if it's just well known. Or it's just like an energy I put out now that it's like, I don't put up with that shit.

Amber Délice

So that's part of the reason, like, I'm attracted to you too, and like, wanting to have you in my life and wanting to be on your podcast is like I sense that about you and that, that helps me trust you, honestly. And I think that's another thing is like, if we do share what we really want, like in, like the clients who we really want to keep, I think, do want that they want a person who it you know, has, has an understanding of their own awareness and desires and their no, and their yes and I think that that can be very sexy and attractive.

Parker

Absolutely. That and it, it creates a clear container for us to build a relationship within when we have the, when we know our boundaries. I think about that a lot in terms of like BDSM relationships too is like a DOM that had like, even if they're just completely arbitrary made up rules, or like things, it's, there's something about this like container within which we get to exist, or like that's part of a scene is like you're setting a scene, there are rules within the scene and then when the scene ends, those rules can dissolve and like. But like knowing, knowing the space in which we're building is really comforting.

Amber Délice

Mm hmm. Yeah. I'm curious. Can I ask you a question?

Parker

Sure.

Amber Délice

I'm curious when it is hardest to hold boundaries, and I'll just answer it to you because this is coming up for me. But for me, it's when I'm touring that's when it's hard. Because I guess I go into like, a, I'm in a Venus in Virgo. And so I go into like, my Virgo-ian, and like, okay, this is what I'm spending on hotel, this is what I'm spending on flight, like, this is what I want my profit to be, you know, and like, if I become like that, I can, you know, maybe say yes to an appointment, I don't want to or like, you know, stay longer than I want to or something. And so yeah, that's something that I'm definitely still working on.

Parker

Yeah, I think that resonates with me that I find when speaking of the word tether, when I'm touring, I don't have my normal space, my normal routine is a little messed up and so like, I don't feel grounded. And that's when I'm, when I'm not grounded that's when I am willing to make more compromises. And so definitely, when I'm touring, I also find financial insecurity. If I get in a place where I'm like, oh my God, there's no book, there's no bookings on my calendar and I start to like, freak out about the fact that I don't see any projected money coming in sometime.

Amber Délice

or you know, what you might name is wasted money if it's like the hotel or whatever.

Parker

Oh, yeah, and not even on a tour but like, just in general. If I go into a place of financial insecurity and scarcity mode, I will compromise, I used to like compromise my safety in some ways. I'm not, not always in this work either. Yeah, and that that is a scary place to be I really try to stray from that and have people I can reach out to, to be like, hello, I am spiraling into financial scarcity mode, and I need, I need some grounding.

Amber Délice

Having a support network so important. I'm glad you have that.

Parker

Yeah. I'm glad you're cultivating it with Tether. So good.

Amber Délice

Um, oh, can I add just one more thing.

Parker

Please.

Amber Délice

As far as boundaries and what helps me at least is, so journaling and tracking, like what has happened because I've held a boundary can also be really fun and can like, inspect, continue to do it. So, I don't know if you call this boundary or just a no, but this is actually the last time I was in Detroit, where I had a request and it has it was someone I had seen before and I had told myself, I wouldn't see this person again. And then they made a request and I said yes at first, because money and then I felt like sick about it. I was like, my stomach was in knots and then, and then I hit of course, like, luckily, I had an appointment with my therapist, like a zoom call and because of that, I was like, I'm gonna turn it down. I'm gonna like, say no and so I cancelled it and I then tracked what happened that day and like, so many amazing things happened, like, like, I just hang around my Airbnb, I made like a deeper connection with like a man that I was talking to at the time. Like, I just kind of like tracked my day as if it were like, I don't know, like a story or something or, like a show or narrative and then like, got to look back on that in my journal, like a month later of like, oh, and I'm glad I did that, because like, maybe these things wouldn't have happened. So, yeah, that's helpful. Yeah.

Parker

Well, you just for listeners who aren't familiar with the concept of tracking, will you kind of dive into that a little bit for us?

Amber Délice

mbers seeing, like, you know,: 11:11

Parker

Yeah, I always think of it as like, I, I grew up in an area where like hunting was a big thing. And so, I often think of it as like tracking an animal where you're like, looking for footprints and like the, the, the broken branch and the, so you're like, tracking?

Amber Délice

Oh, yeah.

Parker

Yeah, tracking the like moments and the things that are that are going on and I do love that it's personal. Like, I could hear a song and be like, oh my god, like, this means, this means this thing and that means I have to go like find water or like, whatever it might be and to someone else's just like, yo, that's just a song on the radio. Calm down.

Amber Délice

Really quickly, I want to share something crazy. So, when I bought my house earlier this month, and this is nuts, so when I had to, I had to like to raise the amount that my offer was because the real estate market is fucking nuts everywhere in the country, but definitely in Colorado. And so, the number that I put in, like the amount that I had to pay or the amount of the house like that I'll have to pay was the exact same number as my Amber Twitter followers.

Parker

[garbled]

Amber Délice

So, like that's weird, like and it was it was a day where I think I'd like made a post or something and so I gotten like a couple 100 new followers so the amount wasn't like yeah, I didn't know what it would be. And like literally like the minute that I like signed the like contract to make like the offer for the house, it was the number was the same, I took a screenshot I was like what the fuck.

Parker

Oh my god.

Amber Délice

And I feel like to me it was like, I mean, it's like some people might think that's like a silly thing or whatever, but it's meaningful because it's like Amber has made it possible to even buy this house. So, it was just this really like this is right moment, like one of the many like little this is right moments that that happened for me. So yeah, things like that.

Parker

I love that. Um, let's pivot back to boundaries a little bit. Um, because you had wanted, one of the things that you had mentioned in your email was tactfully communicating boundaries. Like especially if, like if someone truly violates a boundary we can be like, fuck you I'm never gonna see you again or like, whatever it is. Right? But if someone violates a boundary and we want to keep them as a client, like how, what does that process look for you? I know you have a recent experience too and if you are willing to share, I'm all ears. And would love for the world to like, sharing this experience with you.

Amber Délice

Yeah, well, I think so I'll share that after, because I know that's a bit more like involved. But I feel like at first, when sharing a boundary that or sharing that, you know, you feel upset about something or you're feeling like closed off because of something that a client did. I think that setting context is really important first, so like approaching it of like, hey, like, I want to share something that's still feeling sticky for me and I'm sharing it with the desire to, like, bring us closer, or the desire to like, keep our friendship intact, or, you know, lovership intact. And so, I think just something simple, like, that can be really great. Because, you know, sometimes I think culturally, if you say, like, you know, we have to talk or like, I have to talk to you about something like a lot of us kind of like, ooh, like, close up, because that's just like a phrasing in the English language that you know, means like, I'm in trouble or, like, you know, you're mad at me, which like, is fine to share, but it's just so, it's just so marred in like childhood crap for so many of us, you know, so, do to start with, like, hey, like, I want to share something with the intention to like, keep, keep our connection, I think can be like a great thing to do. So, yeah.

Parker

I think that that goes back to the container piece of like, this is the context in which we're going to be talking and like, not leaving so much to the imagination. Because I think, like you said, our trauma, our trauma response is to like, for, for a lot of us is to start to prepare for the worst and like, spiral.

Amber Délice

And then we can't I feel like we can't then bring our most like receptive selves if we're also like, worried that we're going to be hurt or abandoned or?

Parker

Yeah, absolutely.

Amber Délice

Yeah. The, so the story that I want to share is, so I have a pretty long term client snd, and this is relevant to the story. So, I will share like, he he's like, my biggest patron, I would say, like, my biggest client financially and so obviously, there's a lot there, of like, fear, you know, coming up, potentially. And he, I noticed one day that he was looking at my civilian Instagram stories and so I yeah, I had this happen, I noticed that, because obviously, you can see who, who looks at them. And there's a bit more context to that but I'll keep sharing from here for now. I said, we were also doing like a digital arrangement, so we use Marco Polo to share videos back and forth every couple of days. And so, when I noticed that I went into our Marco Polo thread, and I was like, hey, like, I noticed you did this, and I'm really angry, and I'm really upset, and I will talk to you in a few days and like, I care for you, and I'll be back. And I know, like for him I mean, he's pretty secure in general but I think like, when threatened or when something is threatened that he loves, he tends maybe toward anxiousness, which is also something that I tend toward. And so like, I know that for someone who has, like, some abandonment, and you know, things like, like most of us or who's anxious, like, like, you know, basically to say, like, the version of I love you, and I'm angry, and I love you, and I'll be back is like, important to say so I said that to him in my own way. And then, you know, logged off my Marco Polo, and I actually, like, happened to be driving into the mountains, as well so that was convenient. And, you know, I think in that moment, like, I could not communicate, I could not say like, hey, let's have a talk, blah, blah, blah, because that was just like, it just enraged me. I was like so angry, and I feel like on, in our, like, Twittersphere, you know, we see a lot of like, that happens, you know, like, fuck them, like, just like, never talk to them again, or see them again and so I didn't know how I felt about it. I was like, yeah, this is like, I just know that I feel a lot of anger and I'll come back to you and also, I felt confident enough in our relationship that I could do that and that he would trust me that I would be back. So anyway, I took a few days and then um, you know, he, he mentioned when I came back like he was just like, like, in terrible like agony, like for those two days of just like, oh, like I've hurt her like, oh, and so we had a date. A booking coming up pretty soon so we kind of like, I was like, okay, like I'm back and I've, you know, I don't feel like as much anger, but I do like, want to let you know, that's a huge violation and like, I never want that to happen again. And he was like, yes, of course, of course like, you know, let's connect about it in person. So, when we got together, I was still feeling like very upset and we had like a, I think it was like a three day or something and so what we did was I had decided that I was open to like hearing him out as to why he did that and I mean, to be honest, like, I don't think there's a good reason. So not, I was still would say that it wasn't a great reason it was that, like, I think I had been, I had been more absent, like, than usual or something on our Marco Polos and so he like, felt the desire to like, check, he felt like he was overcome with his curiosity. Right? So, like, not a good reason, like that was his reasons.

Parker

Understandable but not a good reason yeah.

Amber Délice

Yeah. Right? Like, it wasn't like, I was worried you were dead or something and so I checked on your civilian social media, it's still not a good reason. And still, it was like, okay, you have this not good reason, then do, what do I do about that? Like, do I, do I say, go away forever, or? So, when we got together, so okay, I'm going to actually track backwards. So, some, there was something that I noticed, that was very interesting and I, before I say this, I want to preface it with like, this is not to give him an excuse, give him an excuse to have done this and he knows that. But I was I was seeing someone at the time I was dating someone and I'm glad to not be dating this person anymore because I had gotten to a place where he was not okay with my work and I had got to this place of saying, like, I will go on hiatus for you. My intention with that was that the person I was dating would then like, you know, we would go out with like, you know, like, my friend Amelia and her fiancé, we would you know, maybe go see a therapist, we would like spend the two months that I would be on hiatus like, unraveling his like, you know, inner or beliefs that he doesn't know existed about sex work. Like, yeah, my intention there but that was a no for him anyway, so we ended up not seeing each other anymore. But, but when I had this conversation with this person I was dating and I told him that I would stop working for two months it was the same day that my client checked my civilian Instagram stories. And you didn't know that, and, you know, again, it's not an excuse, and the way that I the closeness that I feel with this client I do not doubt that there's like some tiny energetic portion that felt that.

Parker

Yeah.

Amber Délice

Like that felt that pull away. And I know that's a bit too woo-woo for a lot of people to hear, but like I believe there's a there's, there's enough inner space and world inside of me that I've grown to have compassion for that possibility, while also still holding a boundary of like, fuck no that's not okay. Still not okay, so, yeah. Anyway, I just like, you know, like we've talked about, I think, like the nuance it's important to share, like, when it's just share, like all of the things that could be happening energetically or logistically or you know, so there's that. So going back to the appointment that we had scheduled

Parker

Can we stop here just for a second because I think that I mean, there's so much in this this first yeah, there's so like, there's just so much I would love to just pause and talk about this first part because the, the self-knowledge that it took for you to be like, I need some time and like hold space for your anger.

Amber Délice

Yeah.

Parker

Which I think is for me like rage and anger is a really difficult emotion for me to process like I'm actually just working with my therapist and like the people close to me that are on my journey like working with tapping into rage and like how to actually like create space for it so that it doesn't come out sideways. So, for you to take a moment to be like hey, I saw that you did this. I'm pissed off, but like still care, love and care about you, I will be back but I need some time. Like that, that comes from a place of self-knowledge that like your work, the work that you do, to like heal, to heal yourself and like get to know the like abandonment issues in yourself or like all the, the healing pieces, right? So first of all, just take a moment to appreciate that. What did it? When you were in the mountains, that I'm just like sensing this gap that I want I'm curious about, but when you were in the mountains when you, when you had moments to like experience that, that anger and rage like what did that look like for you?

Amber Délice

Yeah. Well, that, because also of the person that I was dating and how he was like rejecting like this deep part of my identity there was also that, that was present. So, it was just like, this was the, this is January of this year, and this was when I learned to ski. So, I, yeah, that's, that's how I processed it and I, you know, there's, there's many ways that I process anger, but being in the mountains and moving my body is, is probably the number one way. So, and this was helpful because I, I had not skied before except for like a couple of times and I fell in love with it and so it also not only like the movement and the endorphins and the you know, like study of it in terms of like watching other people and like, trying to learn something new was, was a, was a really relevant thing. So being able to be in like beginner's mind around something was super helpful and so it was like, I had passion around a new sport and beginner's mind and like this sort of like humbleness and, like just fell all over the place. And that was, I think, really helpful and also, yeah, kept me connected to myself while also like, yeah, burning like two thousand calories a day, like skiing. So yeah,

Parker

Intense, intense body work on that one.

Amber Délice

Yeah, yeah. And there's something that's always been there for me about like, just driving off into the mountains, like, I mean, I'm in Boulder and so you know, I can see like the flat irons, but as far as like the, you know, 14,000 foot 13,000 foot ones, like, we can't see them super well from, from the valley. But when you like, when I just go off, even if it's for like the day, there's some sort of like, like, whimsical, like, carefree feeling that I get that I don't get when I'm, I mean, maybe like, you know, like, kind of like a road trip feeling like setting off on a road trip, like just feels like you're kind of like leaving, leaving the things behind. And yeah, that's really good.

Parker

Yeah. Able to really show up for yourself in that space without all the superfluous daily grind things that we have around us all the time. Yeah. I'm, I'm about to go on vacation, so, I'm, I'm over here, like, yes, I can't wait for that. Okay, so, um, yeah, let's get like you, you've had a, you've had a long-term connection with this client, and you ended up going through with this, like, next booking. So, like, why don't you take us into that booking? And how you navigated that?

Amber Délice

Yeah, so it was a fly me to. So, you know, I met him like on the East Coast and we, you know, I think we met in the afternoon. So, you know, we had dinner and things and chatted, but I, I guess that's also important, because it had been two weeks or so and I, I knew that we were going to have a deep conversation about this. And I think this is also something I've built, which I'm kind of just realizing right now is that I trusted myself to have it because I think in the past, like I might be feeling anger and then express it, but then not actually have the conversation because I'm like, oh, like, that's probably all I need to do or something. Like I'm, I would try to like backpedal out of it but I think at this point, I trusted myself enough to be like, okay, like, we can have a nice dinner and you know, talk about all the other things that are up but, but like, after dinner when we're back in our, like hotel suite, like we're gonna like sit on the couch and, and like really dive into this. And he knew that, and, like, I think that that felt really good. So, when we did that we actually I had us sit on the ground, because something about that felt like more stable to me and, and just like face him and I, I think I had asked him to bring something sacred to him and I'd also brought like a few pieces to kind of make like a little altar, like a little shared altar to like, make the space feel a little bit more sacred. And I think that the most important thing was that I needed him to experience my anger not like projected out at him, but just my like experience of it. And it just might as I mentioned, it had been two weeks later, so I wasn't like in the moment of it. So, I got the experience of like, like sitting with him and like just breathing and then like accessing it again and then just like, sharing like my, like, just through my body and my emotions like my grief and my anger, not necessarily through like words of blame, but just like how, how deeply painful it was for me, which is hard to put into words, but I can try. And him the way that he held space for that and received it and not in a way of like, I think there's many ways that I've experienced and probably done to people is like, like deflecting it or being like, oh, like I'm so sorry, but actually in saying that I'm like blocking the other person from fully transmitting the emotion and letting it move through them. So, he didn't do that he just, he listened, he felt he cried and I think yeah, that felt really good. And so, I called it like, it was like our repair ritual. And then, yeah, and then I heard I heard him which, you know, he mainly was just expressing it and that was, he said, and I believe him, like the only time that he ever checked my, my stories. And it was some sort of accident that he knew my name anyway, like I, you know, one of those, like, you do a lot of fly me to you like your name comes up in like a TSA agent or whatever it's like, okay, um, yeah, and so, you know, I heard I heard why and I heard that he just like, had had some experience of like, feeling a lack of me or, like, missing me. And, you know, I, you know, as we said, it's like, not an excuse and also like, I want to hold the nuance that like we are humans engaging in this and it's a really natural human thing to, like, be curious about someone that you love and care about. And, and also, like, express the boundary of, of that, and then the boundaries that we have to keep in order to do this work in a way that feels good for us. So yeah, so we had that and that felt good to me. And then I don't remember if we talked about it a couple more times, but I know, like, you know, I think ideally, it's like you do something like that and then you know, both of you are like clear forever. And like it's great, but like things like little, little things like ping later, and you have to like, bring them up. So, I think that was also important to name of like, hey, like, you know, I might have some some residual feelings, like come up after this, and I will name them. Yeah, so. But also, I want to name like, it was really terrifying for me like, I think I'm talking about it from, like, retrospect, where maybe it sounds like it was easy, but it was really scary because as I mentioned, like, he provides a lot of my income. You know, there was like, many, many earlier versions of me, where if this would have happened, I might have been like, like, hey, like that’s not okay, but like, haha, you know, like just sort of brushing under the rug and I really wanted him to know, like, how deeply it hurt me.

Parker

Yeah, yeah. I think I mean, the fact that you propose the topic of courageous conversations is right on point because, like, as you're talking, I'm over here just being like you are so brave. Because even in a non like, client relationship, where there's not money involved, it's really hard to communicate our feelings or our boundaries like that, um, and to like, as, as I was listening to you, I was like, oh, wow, we really just get to choose whether or not we trust this person to hear us. Because I think that's another important part is like, we can share our boundaries all day long but do we choose oth-, or do we trust the other person to really hear them and respect them? Because if we're the one constantly having to hold and reinforce our boundary, that can be exhausting. And like, that's not a respect and trust-based relationship. So, the fact that you showed up and like trusted this client to hold space for you to share how you felt and how he affected you with his actions. And not only that, but trust that his behavior would change. It's, it's really, he, is like fucking beautiful. I'm over here just like holy shit that's beautiful. Not to mention the idea of like a repair ritual because I think that that's having just like a concrete moment of this like, sharing, sharing how you felt, but also being like we can, we can move forward from this, provided we both are holding space for that.

Amber Délice

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for your reflections. I knew that I didn't want to just be somewhere like, middle of the road like, I either wanted to be like, hey, we need to reevaluate our relationship and maybe, like, stop seeing each other or, or I want to be like, okay, let's, you know, tackle this head on, which is like, a funny phrase that I don't actually resonate with. Or, like, you know, just yeah, look at all of the different angles and nuances and, and move on from here and move. Yeah, keep moving on from here, so.

Parker

Yeah. I think with relationship conflict, it's and like, I'll bring up cancel culture, because why not? It's really the easiest route is to just end it, it's, it's so easy. But the, the more complicated and, and more difficult, but potentially fruitful, and, like, full of information about each other path is to have the conversation to communicate, to look inward enough where we can, like, know, where we can know our boundaries and, and, and know what we need moving forward. I think, old Parker, like, especially like, before I became Parker, I didn't know what the fuck I needed or wanted, or like, any of that, and it showed in my relationships, I would like mold myself to people I would, you know, not, not let them know, when they had a transgression over what, what I later learned was a boundary and it caused a lot of damage. So, to be able to, I love, to be able to practice that in client relationships has been something super valuable for me because boundaries are essential in this work. Boundaries of all kind, boundaries on this is my price, and, and no, I will not negotiate, that's a boundary, and they range from like emotional boundaries to physical boundaries to financial boundaries. And so, I think learning yeah, learning what those are and being able to communicate them clearly is just a journey. I was sloppy in my first year for sure at times but part of the process.

Amber Délice

It is because it, I've heard this from a few people, and I think I'm hearing this in what you're saying and definitely for me, like when I first started to like learn about boundaries and express them, I would I would come off as like very defensive. Because I didn't like either trust myself or you know, also, also, I think there's some, there's some like anger there at the amount of times like over our lifetimes that we like haven't expressed or like haven't been able to if we were younger, you know, so I think that anger comes out first as we're learning to express boundaries and then when we like start to gain more trust in ourselves that like this is for the greater good of all like the people in our lives and us like it can become a lot easier.

Parker

Yeah, easier and less aggressive. Yeah, I hear that.

Amber Délice

Yeah, and more, or like empowered and centered and like clear now,

Parker

Yeah, yeah. I feel like especially as like people who grew up socialized as women and, and like really any oppressed group like that, that tendency to like when you set a boundary do it with a lot of aggression or like that anger like all the things that we are living in our beings around our boundaries constantly being overstepped. Like that comes up. So, I'm really glad you identified that because that's, I think that's really important.

Amber Délice

Yeah, I'm remembering a quote that I heard somewhere that I think I posted on my Twitter like a long time ago, so I won't be able to find it. But it's something like boundaries don't always have to be like a barbed wire fence like they can be a light surrounding you saying like I am worthy of this like I deserve this. And you know, of course there are times when it needs to be that way, a barbed wire fence but I think in general like the more we can like embody that space as like owning our boundaries for like our desires and also like against like, this is a no, the more we can like, the more comfortable it gets and the easier it gets.

Parker

Yeah. I um when I was first learning about boundaries I, I really liked to think of it. I was like, oh, it's not a wall. It's like a cell wall like it's it's living, it's permeable we can choose to, like, change it move it. But it's it is because I also love the ideas that like, our boundaries, shift and change with us as we grow they're not like an impermeable wall that just stays where it is. Yeah, I learned that.

Amber Délice

As you were saying that something just came through for me, so I feel like I should share it. I think, for me, the, the less resistance I've had internal resistance I've had to this work like to being a sex worker, which I think this is another topic for another time, maybe. But I think we all have and start with and hope hopefully, I'm moving through like our own internalized stigmatization around this work. Yeah, anyway. But, yeah, um, but I have grown to, like, integrate more and accept more that my purpose flows through this work and when I, when I've gotten to that, to those places, which sometimes I still, like, resist it, I then noticed that like, my greatest challenges come through this and like, things that I'm supposed to learn come through this and like, like, I like got to do a repair ritual with this person and, and maybe that will benefit me in the future in a, you know, partnership, or a friendship when I need to, like, set a boundary like that and repair relationships. So, I'm getting to practice, like, the way that I want to relate and the way that I want to connect to people like through this work, and when I can see it from that perspective, I noticed like more beautiful things happen in my life.

Parker

Exactly that. I resonate with that wholeheartedly. Like I said, I've learned, I've learned so much and it's like, I've learned a lot about myself in this work. Not to mention about like the world and my clients, but like, I've learned a ton about myself, and I value that so, so much. Is there is there anything else you want to share on this topic before we move into some rapid-fire questions? Do you feel complete?

Amber Délice

Hmmm. I think the only thing that I'd want to share is to maybe go back to something from the beginning around, that this is a practice and it's not sometimes I want to think like oh, I've you know, I've shared a boundary and I and I'm done now you know, like, nothing else. Or like that won't come up again, you know, and it's like, I think like accepting it and integrating it as like a practice that you may need to do and will need to do like over and over again as part of your growth and life is, is a really is a good way of thinking of it at least for me. And I think it might, it might help like soften soften it too knowing that it's a part of your daily probably practice to keeping yourself safe and and thriving.

Parker

Yeah. I love, I love that. My, the perfectionist in me is just like wait what? I can't do it perfectly the first time what bullshit is this but yeah, that's it's a practice and the more the more we can internalize it as a practice the better off we will be showing up. Like, I, someone said recently like, I am my own primary partner. Maybe it was on like an Instagram reel or something but they were like, I am my primary partner and I was like, oh shit, we can do that? Um, and I really love that as a concept and like when I am my primary partner like I do exactly that it's a practice of loving myself because relationships are cultivated I don't just get to be like I love myself and now I'm done. It's like a everyday.

Amber Délice

Nothing else will happen to shake me.

Parker

All right. I, I realized that you've already been on the show and thus have answered the rapid-fire questions. So, I quickly I quickly came up with some new ones for you.

Amber Délice

I was gonna say I remember not being good at these, but I'll try to be better.

Parker

What I learned is I'm actually the one that's bad at these because I'll just like ask further questions and then we have another like half hour interview of just the rapid-fire questions, so

Amber Délice

More fun.

Parker

Absolutely. Okay, so are you ready?

Amber Délice

I'm ready.

Parker

Cats or dogs?

Amber Délice

Yes, I want a cat.

Parker

That was fast. hiking or kayaking?

Amber Délice

Hiking.

Parker

Star Trek or Star Wars?

Amber Délice

Oh, I don't like either of them. I know that I’ll lose followers? Um, I don't I don't like either of them. No.

Parker

That's okay, it's not everyone's cup of tea. We can't be friends anymore though. Sorry. But no, I like them for both of us. What is your artistic medium of choice?

Amber Délice

Oh my god, it's always changing. Honestly, right now it's interior design, because I love my house so much. And also writing I've been doing a lot of journaling so, we'll go with those.

Parker

Fantastic. I love them. What book are you reading right now?

Amber Délice

Oh, my god thank you for asking. I'm reading a fiction book called, I'm looking over here at it because I'm longing to read it today, called Clara and the Sun.

Parker

What is it? What is it about?

Amber Délice

Yes. So, the main character is an A F which is an artificial friend and so basically in this world, children who I think are struggling with like learning disabilities or other disabilities, they buy, or their parents buy them artificial friends to help. And this is from written from the perspective of that artificial friend who of course, like has like a really high emotional intelligence and it's so good. It's so good oh my god.

Parker

Oh, that sounds incredible. I love science fiction so much that sounds so good and relatable considering the work that we do.

Amber Délice

I know right?

Parker

Yeah, yeah. What is your favorite comfort food?

Amber Délice

Oh god, sorry, there's so many things floating through my head right now to say.

Parker

I see it happening your eyes are just like all over. I love it.

Amber Délice

Oh, god. Um, there's a really great restaurant in Boulder called Basta and they make these Detroit style pizzas. With like this big like super like crispy like fried crust. Anyway, my comfort food right now is getting one of those and like taking one of the squares and then frying an egg and putting it on top of it.

Parker

Eggs on everything.

Amber Délice

Really? Yeah. Yolk dripping. Yes.

Pakre

Perfect. What is a song and album or an artist? You're currently obsessed with?

Amber Délice

Fever kin. Oh my god. Do you know Fever Kin?

Parker

I don't.

Amber Délice

I don't know if it's an artist or a band I just I heard them a few times on Spotify. And I've made playlists of Fever Kin and it's, it's like the sexiest drippiest but like violins and beats. Oh my god I love Fever Kin. Overthought and October are two of my favorite songs by them or I don't know if who they are but listen.

Parker

I definitely will, I have a soft spot for violin like deep, deep soft spot for violin.

Amber Délice

You'd like this on Overthought then.

Parker

Perfect. Um a silliest memory or your silliest memory from childhood?

Amber Délice

Hmm. I don't have a lot of memories from childhood. But oh, this one's hard. Parker. Hmmm.

Parker

I thought this might be a little hard.

Amber Délice

This is a little hard. Oh, rapid. I'm not.

Parker

I think we can also do it as like a silliest like inner child memory like if you have something current where you got to be silly, and it tapped into your inner child stuff.

Amber Délice

Ah, okay. Well, this is what's coming up. So, I recently hosted a bachelorette party for my best friend at this house, two days after I moved in, which was crazy. And during it, we were, we did like, you know, great food a little intentional circle and then I suggested we all do some like cleaning and basically it was like 10 women in the kitchen, like cleaning and then also twerking because we also played WAP and like Bus’ It. And like, it was really, really fun and then yeah, we just like worked and like flailed around and also magically got the kitchen clean in like 10 minutes, which, like, it's always amazing when like, people help out at a party. It's like, just done. So yeah, just the, the flailing about for that felt like really playful and also effective.

Parker

I love that. So, so much my, my whole, one of the quotes I use most often is if you're not having fun, you're not doing it right. So, sounds like you were doing, right.

Amber Délice

Mm hmm. Yeah, so one of the girls made a time lapse of it and it's just really funny to watch like dishes disappear and then like booty shaking, like all at the same time.

Parker

Yes. Alright, and the last one is, what is your favorite way to wind down or treat yourself?

Amber Délice

Oh, so this is all just like super all, my answers are like very timely, because I bought this house. So usually at sunset, I pour myself a little glass of wine in one of my like zalto glasses that are like huge and then I walk out my back door and I just start like walking around the neighborhood. And I see all the pretty flowers and I smell them all and then I just I also have this like giant like incredibly breakable wineglass I'm holding. So yeah, just walking around my neighborhood and looking at the flowers and I also have a swing set, like right behind my house and so I go on the swing set with my zalto glass and so yeah, I guess also me caring for my inner child and also my, definitely my adult self. That’s one of my favorite ways to wind down.

Parker

That's beautiful. I love that. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. Again, I'm so grateful that I've met you and that you continue to be like someone that shows up in my life, but also like in the sex worker world, because you, you provide this like light and warmth. And then with the Tether space, I know that that means a lot to a lot of people. So, I just want to thank you for being here today and thank you for doing all the work that you do.

Amber Délice

Hey, thank you, Parker, you I love this podcast so much. I feel like the space that you hold and the direction and leadership and also the effort I know you put into it is just like, stunning to me. So yeah, thank you.

Parker

Thank you so much. If we could hug right now? We would. Someday soon. Or wait, we'll do a little Let's say goodbye to all the listeners before we stop recording. So, bye everyone.

Amber Délice

Bye everyone. Find us on the internet.

Parker

Thank you all for joining us for that conversation. I am so grateful that you're here and you're listening. If you like that content, please share with your friends, give us a shout out on Twitter at sexy Galaxy pod and rate us five stars give us a glowing review that really does help boost analytics and get more more people's eyes or ears on the show. If you really like the content and you want to see some extra bonus ep, hear, I don't know why I'm saying see so much. If you'd like to hear some extra bonus episodes, you can find those over at Patreon patreon.com/sexy Galaxy pod. And I've been posting bonus episodes there's some behind the scenes content. I've been trying to have a little more content over there because I was not for a while. So hopefully all the Patreon members are feeling that effort. Love it, I love everyone who's supporting the show and if you're not able to support the show right now, totally cool. I'm just grateful you're listening so keep that up. Oh my god, I can't I feel like I run out of space facts but it's only the limitations of my imagination of which I know none. So, I just have to stop putting myself on the spot. Something most people may not know because they haven't been into space, not yet anyway, is that thongs are actually the most comfortable form of underwear aside from no underwear at all to wear while you're in a spacesuit. So, keep that in mind, make sure you're dressing appropriately next time you've entered into space. Nanu Nanu motherfuckers.