Amy Bond

Parker

Welcome to a sex workers Guide to the Galaxy, where the answer to life, the universe and everything is sex workers. I'm your host, Parker Westwood. And today I'm really excited to bring you an interview with Amy bond. She runs Pole and Dance Studios, that's the name of the company Pole and Dance Studios, with locations in San Francisco, Oakland and Berkeley. She's also an author and competitive pole dancer and is a pro bono attorney. She's got a lot going on. We talk about her recent feature in the Netflix original documentary Stripped Down, Rise Up and if you haven't seen it, you should definitely watch it. It came out in March, I believe. And it talks about the power that is found in in pole dance and there's so it's so nuanced and trauma informed and not what I expected. So go ahead, give it a watch. I'd love to hear what you think about it, and then dive into this interview or do this interview first, I really don't care. Whatever you want to do, it is your life. So, in this interview, we talk with Amy about her feature in Stripped Down Rise Up, as well as her former career in porn, and navigating life after porn. We also talk about the healing power of pole dancing, both in her own experience and those she teaches, and I share a little bit as well. We also talk about her and her husband's journey into the world of polyamory, and I'm really excited for you all to hear it. I'm also really excited to announce that this is the first episode that has a Patreon only interview associated with it. So those of you who are Patreon members, or those of you who shortly will be, get access to this extra interview with Amy Bond, we talk about how to create a dating profile when you're looking for polyamorous relationships. We also get to talk about the joys of anal, and all the various things, anal training, I get to talk about pegging. I love talking about pegging. So, it's great. Join us over at patreon for this extra interview. Is all I'm saying, it's one of the many ways you can support this show. Other ways you can support this show include continuing to listen, thank you, I love it that you all are listening. Share it with your friends, word of mouth is still one of the most powerful things and the people that trust you, when you recommend, this podcast are going to probably going to listen. So, share away use your voice for good tell people to listen to this podcast. You can also rate the show five stars or leave a great review. Both of those things are awesome, doesn't matter what platform you're on. I, I've seen the ones that people have been leaving and I thank you so so much. It's really wonderful to see the feedback and see you all participating. It's really, it's really cool. This episode also requires a couple of trigger warnings. We mentioned rape and sexual assault, and we talk about briefly about an eating disorder. This episode is really fun. I'm so excited to share it with you, and I, we laugh a whole bunch and I feel way less self-conscious about having a bunch of laughter in these episodes after the Clover episode. So, I don't know what I was going through at that point but I'm glad I'm over it. Yeah. So, I'm just going to we're going to jump in. Thank you so much for listening, I hope you enjoy this interview and here we go. So, hello there, Amy Bond. I'm so happy to have you with me today,

Amy Bond

Me too. I'm super excited to be here.

Parker

Why don't you take a moment to introduce yourself to our listeners, your, your name, your pronouns, where you're located, and what kind of sex work you do or have done.

Amy Bond

Yeah, so my name is Amy Bond. I live in San Francisco. Currently I'm an attorney part time, full time, I run three pole dance studios, San Francisco Pole and Dance, Oakland Pole and Dance, and Berkeley Pole and Dance. And when I was 20, I was both in porn and also a call girl for a year in Los Angeles, kind of pre-Facebook, pre-social media age, and I remember texting was like a big deal back then. So, kind of like old school style sex worker.

Parker

And then what is your work look like today?

Amy Bond

Yeah, so I do a lot of different things that kind of multi hyphenate life. I think that's less product of being successful, and more a product of having ADHD.

Parker

That is so relatable.

Amy Bond

California barred attorney in: 2013

Parker

Cool.

Amy Bond

Yeah. So, for five years after I became an attorney, I worked in tech, and, and then I moved into running my own pole dance studio, which sounds like wait, what, but I actually started pole dancing, when I was in law school and I took my first class the same day that I started law school and just kind of fell in love with both pole dancing and the law, and both just like awakened these different sides of my personality, that I kind of hadn't explored before. So,

Parker

Yeah.

Amy Bond

Yeah, so.

Parker

That's not something you hear very often; I fell in love with both the pole and the law.

Amy Bond

And to be honest, I'm not sure which has tipped me more on a social justice tract,

Parker

Right.

Amy Bond

own brand. So, I did that in: 2016

Parker

Wow yeah.

Amy Bond

Building a business that is, seems so novel when you do it but then, when you're doing it for a lot of people, you realize everyone has the same problems.

Parker

Yep.

Amy Bond

Yeah, and then I'm a competitive pole dancer. So, I also spend a good amount of time training and pole dancing, and it's my greatest love.

Parker

I love that it's, you have such a full life and I'm excited to kind of get into it more.

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

But one of the things I wanted to touch on before we get too far in, is you were, you were involved in the Netflix original documentary Stripped Down, Rise Up. How do you?

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

How did you get involved in that? And kind of tell us a little bit about the documentary?

Amy Bond

, I was getting ready for the: 2018

Parker

Agreed.

Amy Bond

And, and so it was kind of my way of reclaiming my body, or just mirroring how I felt pole dance helped me reclaim my body long before that stage on a routine at a conference, at a professional competition level um, and so there is an element of that, of that healing aspect in my storyline as well.

Parker

Yes. So fantastic. I before we move on to the healing element, because I do want to dive into that, because that's something,

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

I'm incredibly passionate about. I want to let you know, like the I when I watched the documentary, I went in and I was I will admit, I was a little bit of an asshole. I was like, oh, no, this is gonna be like, white women reclaiming pole. And like,

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

it'll like uphold the whorearchy.

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

But with Sheila being so trauma informed, and like, willing to grow, and then your storyline in particular, like made my heart so happy. Because you were like, I don't even see what's wrong with having a background in porn, like I don't, like,

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

and there was no, specifically your dialogue made it so that like the whorearchy this, like, internalized stigma was just broken down.

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

and I loved seeing that. So, thank you for like exposing that to the world.

Amy Bond

Oh, thank you.

Parker

Yeah, that's, that's very, it was really important for me to see that because otherwise, it's like, the division is so real within the industry.

Amy Bond

Yeah, I think that's really true and I just want to speak to that for a second, which is, you know, there's one line that I say in the movie, which is which got a lot of put a lot of, you know, very reasonable pushback for which was, I said, at one point, um, I wish when people thought of pole dancing, they didn't think of strippers. I wish they thought of strength. And I know a ton of strippers I train strippers almost every day.

Parker

Sure yeah.

Amy Bond

And, and my friend Evelyn, was like, you know, like, I wish when people thought of strippers they thought of strength because we're really fucking strong.

Parker

Fuck yeah.

Amy Bond

And, and I was like, yeah, you know, that was a real miss right there for me. And you know, when somebody is falling around for a week and capturing everything you say, you're not going to be the most eloquent in

Parker

Right.

Amy Bond

every moment. But I do wish that I had used that as an opportunity to talk about how strippers created the movement practice that we know that I specifically now get to profit off of.

Parker

Right.

Amy Bond

You know, and let's be real. I have three pole dance studios I have not actually taken a paycheck from my studios yet, but I hope to someday and

Parker

Goals.

Amy Bond

And, and that's mainly because I've just put all profit back into building the next studio, and the next one,

Parker

Yeah.

Amy Bond

but I think that there is a little bit, this movie came into this kind of cultural I don't want to call it a war. I hate using war phrases. It's so patriarchal but,

Parker

Right.

Amy Bond

Like, you know, it came into this chasm that existed between the pole dance community and the community of strippers who are just like, just acknowledge me as a human. I can't tell you how many strippers have reached out to me over email through my businesses to say are strippers invited? Are we going to be welcome? Are we going to be treated poorly?

Parker

Yeah.

Amy Bond

And I think that just sucks. Like that sucks that there have been so many experiences with people who are strippers, creating a movement practice that we get to profit off of, and I get to profit off it financially, maybe eventually, but every day, recreational pole dancers get to profit off of, look at this cool thing that I do in my spare time. Aren't I a bad bitch?

Parker

Yep.

Amy Bond

And, and a lot of people who are strippers and sex workers don't get to put their content online because they're afraid of being shadow banned and afraid of being kicked off the internet. Because we live in this world where five dudes who created Instagram get to just decide, you know what, uh, that they get to kick off whoever they want off of this platform that is like people's the foundation of people's income. And I think that just sucks.

Parker

Yeah, like what even is a female presenting nipples? You get close enough and you can't tell? You know what I mean? Like,

Amy Bond

Right.

Parker

I totally, I mean, sure, we can go in a whole tangent about shadow banning. But,

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

I agree. There's like, people profit, whether socially or financially off of this movement.

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

This dance this like, attitude even. And,

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

Again, the whorearchy. We like, like, as humans, we like to stratify ourselves so that we can feel better than, and,

Amy Bond

Yeah. I mean there's even that hierarchy in sex work where like, you know, oh, you were a call girl. You had sex with your clients? Like, that's real bad. I just, I just get looked at, so I have power.

Parker

Yeah, and when I was a stripper that was like, oh, you do extras? I don't do extras. It was like,

Amy Bond

Yeah, totally.

Parker

Yeah.

Amy Bond

Even in the, yeah.

Parker

Yeah. So, I loved that. I mean, like, your character or your, your being.

Amy Bond

Yeah totally.

Parker

You, you address that in a way that that I noticed at least and it really, it made the film for me in a lot of ways.

Amy Bond

Thank you. You know, I have, I have had a lot of people reach out and say, and this is so crazy to me, I thought I was the only one and I think that's a good moment to stop. Because you're never the only one if you think you're the only one.

Parker

Yes.

Amy Bond

So many people reach out and say, I grew up in a repressed religion as well and then I found pole dancing, or then I got into sex work and I learned so much and I think a lot of that piece about how sex work was actually really empowering for me, was kind of left on the editing floor. And so, I did you know, I lost my virginity in porn to a man named Ed Powers and it was a really gentle and kind and wonderful experience. When I talked to other people about their experiences losing their sexuality. It often, our, not their sexuality, their virginity. Sorry.

Parker

Let's hope no one loses that.

Amy Bond

Yeah, please. A lot of them are like, god, it was terrible. There was fumbling, neither of us knew what we were doing, and it was, you know, either painful or didn't have consent, or, you know, all these things. And I was working with a professional who had been having sex for on camera for dozens of years and he was very kind and very nice and he had a small penis, which I really appreciated. And my experience, well, you know, I rewatched recently to write my book is kind of cringe to watch, because, you know, everything is written on my face but he was so nice to me and I had such a great experience losing my virginity, and I got paid for it which is awesome.

Parker

Even better, yes.

Amy Bond

And I think as a young, you know, non-college educated woman, there are very few ways of making, like big cash. And even as a college educated woman there are very few ways making a lot of cash that's like, right here right now. And I think sex work was a very rational decision to make as a 20 year old, struggling actress in Los Angeles trying to get onto her feet and pull, you know, pull her up by the proverbial bootstraps, which you know don't exist.

Parker

Right.

Amy Bond

Um, but that made a lot of sense to me, because I literally just needed cash to go after my dreams.

Parker

Yes.

Amy Bond

And so, you know, I met so many struggling actresses, struggling actresses who just had access to a credit card that they could, you know, put all their, you know, blowouts and manicures and

Parker

Right.

Amy Bond

acting classes. And I didn't have that so I needed to get that. You know?

Parker

Yeah.

Amy Bond

And then ultimately decided to pivot from trying to be an actress to going into political economics but that was also a fun journey.

Parker

Absolutely. Politics can be a little exciting or political economics. Um, I'm going to pivot us back a little bit to talking about the healing aspect of pole because I cried, like at least three times watching, Stripped Down, Rise Up.

Amy Bond

I mean Evelyn are you kidding?

Parker

Oh my god.

Amy Bond

Evelyn's storyline.

Parker

For all the listeners out there, you have to go watch it. Prepare. Bring your Kleenex. It's really great and as someone who like, I had an eating disorder, before I started stripping, and I found a lot of relief and like connectivity in pole dancing, I would love to hear your story about like, how pole has, has been a healing element for you and how you've seen that in yourself and in people that you teach.

Amy Bond

y quite a bit. But, um, so in: 2003

Parker

Yeah.

Amy Bond

And, and so, during that time period, where I was kind of transitioning between you are not sexual at all to your value in terms of financial aid relies on your sexuality. I learned how to create a sexual persona through my named Wendy Chains, by, and I learned that power from men, like it's mostly men on these porn sets. It's mostly men in these hotel rooms during sexy massage, and, and so I kind of would try trial and error, you know, like, okay, if you know, I have this friend Leslie, who is this like, seasoned just call girl and she was so fabulous to me, like an LA 10. You know,

Parker

Yes.

Amy Bond

was how she was described on her profile, huge boobs, super tan, like red hair, just like freaking goddess. And she was she was like, I used to strip in Alaska, and the secret is to be sad, because if you're sad, men want to take care of you, and then they'll give you money. They'll like tip you more.

Parker

Oh my god I love her.

Amy Bond

And so, everything I know, I learned from Leslie who was in the Holiday Inn Express hotel room right next to me, and a collection of men who would tell me how to make myself more profitably sexy. =

Parker

Absolutely amazing.

Amy Bond

I this, yeah, this is how I learned sexuality was like, okay, I'm gonna be a sad girl in the hotel rooms and then I'm gonna be like a whiny little girl on like, the porn sets like really whiny like,

Parker

Oh my god.

Amy Bond

And it was all very clear cut, like it was all like, okay, here's how you act here, and that makes you some cash, and that makes you some cash. Go. And then in Mormonism, the way to like snag a man, and you know it was really quite similar, was to be very pure. So, you like wear your turtleneck wear your pearls. Like, you know, like, you're very covered and like, that's a way of attracting a certain kind of man as well. So, in all these facets of my life that are on porn sets, or at church, I was really just playing a role and kind of learning okay, how do I want to get a husband or at church? Or too, how do I make more money as a sex worker? And it was really fun but ultimately, I was learning my sexuality from a collection of men whose lens for what sexuality was, was, how do I make money off of this?

Parker

Yes.

Amy Bond

And then when I got out of sex work, I just kind of, I wouldn't say I didn't have sex. I had a lot of sex, but it was I didn't like you know, spend a lot of time thinking about what is sexy. I kind of was like, you know, just straight narrow Amy go to community college, waitress, go to law school, go to that next step, next step, and it wasn't until I took my first pole dance class that my instructor Nina Stacy, she owns a studio called Boston Pole and Fitness in Boston. She's an absolutely incredible woman has changed thousands of women's lives, and other people too, not just women. So, this isn't just a woman sport. It's for everyone.

Parker

Yeah.

Amy Bond

And, and she taught us this move called vagina monster where you kind of like, wiggle your legs side to side and like,

Parker

Oh yeah.

Amy Bond

and scoot your butt forward towards a mirror.

Parker

Yes.

Amy Bond

And I just remember like, a giant monstering towards like three other women in the class and we all just like ended up in this like, little love pile of like vagina monster legs, like laughing our asses off and it was so silly and raunchy and so like, not how you would use sexuality to make money.

Parker

Yes.

Amy Bond

Like, I was like, oh, this is like a different form of sexuality, and you know, I don't think we use the word sexuality to market pole very much partially because you're not going to get your ads on social media or on Google, if you've said, learn sexual movement. You say sensual and then it's like for the masses?

Parker

Yes.

Amy Bond

Um, but yeah, I learned this whole new way of like, existing in my body as a sensual slash sexual person and I thought I knew everything about sex, because I'd had so much of it and then I was like, oh, this is totally new. I've never seen this side of sex, slash sexuality before. I want to know everything.

Parker

Yeah.

Amy Bond

And by my 2L year of law school, I had like my pole dance classes, schedule up all the classes I wanted to take and I was scheduling my law school classes around when I would go to pole dancing, because the studio was right next to my law school and I'm, like, majoring in corporate law, because those are the classes that fit with my pole dance schedule

Parker

Oh my god that's amazing. Priorities we get we gotta have them.

Amy Bond

Exactly. So, so, yeah, I was like, and then I started thinking about it years later, like, oh, pole is really just created by women. Like, there's not very many industries that are created by women for a mostly female clientele and pole is one of them and it comes from women who are practiced in the art of, of building their own version of sexuality and sensuality. And I think that's just fascinating. And so, pole kind of flipped a switch on how sexuality could be for me, instead of how I could present sexuality for other people.

Parker

Oh, that's so, so good.

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

And that resonates so hard, because it really is like you. It asks you, pole asks you, any sort of body work really, asks you to get in touch with your body, which I think our society, our culture as a whole really tells us not to do that. Like no, no, no, you don't have to go in there. You don't have to tap into that.

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

Just like be the cog in the machine, make them right. And then once we realize that there's a whole unexplored world in there, and they're definitely like feeling landmines. Like you go in there, and you're, oh, shit, I hit this thing and now it's like running through and I got to process it.

Amy Bond

I mean, tell me about your experience with pole I'm so curious. When have you taken pole? Like, if so, like, what was that experience like for you taking a class?

Parker

I, so my pole experience is, I was 19 years old, and auditioned to work in a strip club. So, I was not of legal age to even be a person in the club, but I was auditioning to work there which you could do. You could work there at 18 so.

Amy Bond

I love that.

Parker

I got the job, but I had never danced on a pole before.

Amy Bond

Right.

Parker

The sum, I was a freshman in college and this senior woman was like, you need to teach me how to dance actually just, just come with me to auditions.

Amy Bond

Oh, I love these mentors.

Parker

Oh, they’re so, they just like, they, they appear when they need to and like I don't talk to her anymore but she has a very special place in my heart and I go and they I'm first up, on, on the stage, they were like you go first. So, I went up,

Amy Bond

Oh god.

Parker

Not knowing anything about anything. And just like, played and you know, danced. I've always loved dancing, and they liked what they saw. So, I got to come back and then after that, it was like, I latched onto a couple pole dancers who were really talented and I was like, please teach me.

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

Like, during the downtime, like, please teach me what you know, I'll throw you some cash and one of the bar owners wives used to be a stripper and so she taught me some like floor work and things like that. And it was just so cool to focus on my body, because I also, at that point, had been raped in the past and like to be sexy. Granted, there were men all around, but half the time I didn't even pay attention to the fact that they were there. Cause like, fuck it. If you're not giving me money, I'm not gonna pay attention to you.

Amy Bond

Yes.

Parker

And just like writhing around on the floor, or like, focusing on how I'm gonna land this move on the pole was just, it was exhilarating. And it was,

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

And it was me and, and I felt hot. And that,

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

That was the thing that I was just like, there is something here for me and it scared me.

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

Because I had learned from being assaulted that like sexuality, women's sexuality, my sexuality was dangerous and that someone could weaponize it. And so,

Amy Bond

Absolutely.

Parker

like, doing like doing pole and owning my sexuality, I'm still working through some of that, like, as a sex worker,

Amy Bond

Totally.

Parker

and as just a person in, in this society. I'm like, still working through some of that, but

Amy Bond

Totally.

Parker

Accessing it through my body with like, somatics is like the, the practice that I've been learning more and more about.

Amy Bond

Oh, I have a client, which is, who does somatics.

Parker

Like a somatic coach?

Amy Bond

Yeah. It's, yeah, she? Oh, yeah. I mean, the body keeps score, right.

Parker

100 percent.

Amy Bond

I found this really funny tweet. I mean, I don't agree with it but it's funny. It said, what if the body didn't keep the score? Or was like, if I was the body, I wouldn't keep the score.

Parker

Just stop counting.

Amy Bond

Yeah. Stop it's too much.

Parker

Does it? Does it fill up? Is there like a scorecard thing where it's just done?

Amy Bond

Like, that is such an amazing experience. And I wanted to just say, that's another critique that I've heard about the movie, which is, um, you know, we talk a lot about how pole dance recreational, it's not for the male gaze, and a lot of people are strippers, like, I love the male gaze, I fuckin make money off the male gaze. Like, actually, the male gaze is really empowering for me and I'm like, oh, yeah, that actually makes a lot of sense because I felt that way. When I worked in porn as well. Like, I would have, you know, everyone has those days where you're just like, I look like shit, I feel like shit, I'm a piece of shit. And then, you know, you go on a porn site, like 20 people are like, you're the hottest piece of ass and you're like, yeah, no, yeah.

Parker

Wait tell me that again. Yeah, absolutely.

Amy Bond

and then they would.

Parker

Totally, I think it's, I do think it's like, we have to be aware of the male gaze, because it can be damaging, it can be toxic.

Amy Bond

Absolutely.

Parker

But we can also like, use it to our advantage.

Amy Bond

And I think that's a really interesting point. Because, uh, there is a really fine line,

Parker

Yes.

Amy Bond

between, uh, yes, I'm owning my power, I'm owning my power and, you know, I had a call girl experience that went awry. And I was using my power, using my power, and then I stepped into somebody's house, and, and had a really traumatizing rape experience.

Parker

Yeah.

Amy Bond

And it's, I think the scary part is how quickly that can flip on us. And I think that's why it's so great that there are these safe spaces where you can go to tap into your body,

Parker

Yes.

Amy Bond

And your there's no one wants, it's not for you. It's for me, and all the other people in the class, they're doing it for them.

Parker

Yep.

Amy Bond

So, I'm not worried about like, how it could flip. You know?

Parker

Yeah.

Amy Bond

And I think we hear a lot of stories about how we hear either one or two stories and the most common narrative is poor little Midwestern girl moves to the big city gets into sex work and then she has to like redeem herself She must like be good again, you know, and, I, I won't lie probably part of becoming a lawyer was to be like, see, I could, I could do the brain shit. You know?

Parker

Yeah.

Amy Bond

And I actually prefer the body shit I was built to be a manual labor, and probably why I love the pole thing. Um, but um, but like, yeah, see, check. Did the brain shit. Are you happy? And, and it's just like those two are so intertwined. Like how do we, how to, why do we pretend that they have nothing to do with each other?

Parker

Agreed. Yeah, it's, it they’re so inherently linked. Um, so how does it feel to witness your community grow in this way? Like these people who are tapping into their, their inner like feminine sexual energy?

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

How does it feel to like witness this grow and see your kind of chosen family expand in that way?

Amy Bond

someone this, I spent all of: 2016

Parker

Yes.

Amy Bond

It was like that, where I was like, watching myself, build a community teach pole like, I was exhausted in like a physical way every day, which for me, is much preferable to being exhausted in a sit at a desk kind of way. And, and just like astoundingly watching, like who, who makes money on a dance studio, like every person I talked to is like, you're not gonna make money, but you're gonna love what you do. And that just ended up not being true for me. My studio was profitable from month one and I think that just has to the fact that we were in a big city where there wasn't already a pole studio. And, and I was just like, I get to do what I love, and I have my mornings free. So, I can write, and I can I get, I get to build something that's different from what exists in the world. Like, this is friggin awesome and yeah, it was so great and then it got to a point where I was like, okay, I want to do this again. And then it was kind of, I felt like I kind of like had left my first community, my San Francisco community to go have the second child across the bay bridge over in Oakland. And then it became this really interesting kind of transition from I am the center of this studio, and this community, and I'm the person you come to with, like, your billing didn't work or, you know, like, all the boring kind of administrative things that go on behind the scenes with running a business to okay, this isn't about me. And I think the part where it became not about me building everything, and where I got, I had a team who I could pay a good salary, and that part was important to me. I never hired anyone until I could pay them well. And

Parker

Yes. Yes.

Amy Bond

So, you know, I know a lot of people do internship programs is I don't think that's the way to do it. But I get into that another time later, we'll go down the Marxist hole later. But, um, yeah, and then it was like, okay, well, how do I cultivate my, my instructor team so that they're at the heart of my studios, and, and they're cultivating my students in after that and that's when it got to be like, we're really cooking with fire baby, you know, because,

Parker

Yes.

Amy Bond

then I could kind of in the bay area, it's like a multiple, like a growth multiple, then it wasn't just me and how many hours I could put in each day it was, how many people can I go train to do this work? And that's now we're kind of at in incentives. It is so fun and this community grows faster that way too. Which is awesome.

Parker

Yeah. Oh, that's so wonderful. I love that. So, you're also a competitive pole dancer? What do you think about right before you get on stage to compete?

Amy Bond

Um, I mean, it's kind of like when you're having an orgasm, and you just like, I don't know about you, but my brain just turns to white noise. Like I've done the work. I know, I know, the moves. You know, like, I know what I'm about to do because I put it in my body so many times. And it's just like, yeah, it's just white noise and there's only been one or two times and I think that that like, the real, real pros like Jenyne Butterfly who does the same routine every night at Cirque du Soleil. Another really amazing, you know, circus artists probably have more of like, an observational feeling of like, okay, so in my body that I'm going to like, watch myself, and observe the audience. I don't have that. It's more just like [buzzing] and I think about nothing, and it's awesome. Love it. So, that's for me. I don't know how other people feel, that's my experience.

Parker

Fantastic. I love that. That's not what I expected to hear.

Amy Bond

Yeah, no, I don't I don't go to a dead place like that's not my thing.

Parker

Oh good. I mean, it sounds really blissful in a lot of ways. Maybe manic.

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

Blissful like this.

Amy Bond

Yeah, that's right.

Parker

Yeah. I’m here for it. Okay, so after the Netflix documentary, what's, what's next for you? I know you recently opened another pole studio. What else do you have lined up for us in the future?

Amy Bond

I wrote it the first time in: 2016

Parker

Yeah.

Amy Bond

Great scott. Like, if you're writing a book for the first time, that's step one.

Parker

Yes.

Amy Bond

And then I wrote it again in: 2017

Parker

Yes.

Amy Bond

ogy of Water, I think in like: 2011

Parker

Wow.

Amy Bond

way, I read that book, and in: 2015

Parker

Wow.

Amy Bond

ry for me. And so, last year,: 2020

Parker

Yes.

Amy Bond

So, I'm moving on to the next thing. You know?

Parker

I've heard that about writing a book that it's like, it's addictive kind of in that way, where like you write your first, and then you're like, alright, what's the next one?

Amy Bond

Oh, yeah.

Parker

I'm really excited to read that. And then I did want to talk to you about polyamory and, non, nonmonogamy.

Amy Bond

Oh great.

Parker

And one of my questions, which was did what? Did your relationship start non monogamous? Or did you open it? So, would you mind telling our listeners a little bit about how that conversation went? And like, how you decided?

Amy Bond

Yeah. Oh my gosh, totally. I love talking about this put a quarter in me. Just tell me to stop.

Parker

I got, I got plenty of quarters. My change does. So we're, we're here for a while.

Amy Bond

Okay, so, um, like: 2019

Parker

It's so great.

Amy Bond

And like, you know, like creating a dating profile for your husband is like marketing. Like, I'm like marketing my husband for other women and that was super fun. And so we called him Web Services Daddy. And,

Parker

oh, man, I love that so much.

Amy Bond

But my husband is like so not a daddy. Like I'm definitely daddy in our relationship and he's more like, my little princess and weighs 250 pounds like six two. So, he starts to go on dates with women and we hadn't done the thing that all the books that we've since read, like tell you to do, which is like establish boundaries and like set rules and expectations. So, he goes out with this woman and has sex with her on the first date, and then doesn't call me the next day. I call him and I'm like what the hell Keith? Like you have sex with someone call me first. Now I kind of think my way of thinking about that was kind of myopic, because, like, what are you going to do? Like you're in the heat of the moment? You're just going to call your, hold on, let me call my wife to make sure.

Parker

Yes. Just gotta inform what's going on, yeah.

Amy Bond

Yeah. So, we, we had kind of this like, quick, nonstarter thing, where I was like, shut it down. Like this is crazy.

Parker

Mm hmm.

Amy Bond

And then, during COVID, like towards the end of COVID, we're like, okay, let's try again. And it was mainly me, I was like, I don't know if I was hornier or what, but anyway, I was, I was, it wasn't that and actually, I want to be clear that it was not just horniness even though I am very sexual person. Um, it was really just like, a desire to explore and once I started to, this kernel of an idea that like, it doesn't have to be monogamy like, I think we default it to monogamy, because that's just like what you do, like, you know, like, you get married, so you like, have a marriage a wedding party, but like, I don't think people, I don't, I never really thought about it. Like I was just like, once the kernel of, oh, you don't have to be monogamous. The fact you can still be happily married and date other people kind of grew in my mind. I was like, huh, that sounds interesting, and I listened to this podcast where this guy said this line. I don't even know who it was. He said, dating is wasted on the young, you learn so much about yourself. And I was like, ooh.

Parker

Oh, that's so good.

Amy Bond

Ooh, yeah. And I was like, I wanna learn about myself and so, I talked to my husband, I was a little nervous. I was like, hey, like, I know we did that. We like shut it down but I kind of want to try again. And I think I want to try dating somebody like I don't know who but like a person. I want to go on a date. And so, we, we like made a weekend out of it, like made each other profiles like dating profiles and then I didn't like mine it sounded too much like a resume. Like, here's my stats you still see that. Especially on men's dating profiles, like check, six three, check, 220 Check. Like, that's two times you know, it's just like

Parker

It just becomes a list of things and you're like, but who are you?

Amy Bond

Yeah, and I was kind of I was kind of like doing the list there. But then I asked my Instagram and then Instagram helped me make a dating profile is really fun.

Parker

Oh fun.

Amy Bond

Like a crowdsource dating profile.

Parker

What a good idea.

Amy Bond

Yeah, it was so fun. I like put it, a picture, and I was like, how would you fix this and then like, people fixed it for me. And so then I started dating and it was so fun and it's amazing how. And the other part was that it was really easy because I had read a lot of Esther Perell and she writes about Mating and Captivity. Mating in Captivity is a great jumping off point but then her second book, State of Affairs talks a lot about like setting boundaries and how it works when you do ethical nonmonogamy if you do it right. And then there's another book called poly-secure that's about polyamorous relationships and how to like, establish what feels good. And let's see, it's all about attachment theory and, and so we kind of had our rules set and then, like, immediately broke all of our rules. Like we made all these rules and then each time we were like, well, does it really not make sense that we don't meet each other's people, like your people sound awesome, I want to meet them. And so, then we like, agreed together to break them and now we really don't have many rules, except for wear a condom, and,

Parker

Nice right.

Amy Bond

And that one's kind of non-negotiable cause I have a lot of men at this point. But, um, but yeah, so it just ended up being really easy, and really fun. And my businesses, it was like the right moment, because my businesses were closed from COVID. So, I wasn't like, having to run my businesses 24/7.

Parker

Yeah.

Amy Bond

And I met, and I met it, to be clear, I met most people socially distanced with masks. Like I went on so many hiking dates, I must have hiked every piece of the Berkeley hills, because like want to go hiking. That's all we can really do during COVID.

Parker

Yeah.

Amy Bond

And I met so many interesting, fascinating people. And at that point, I think I had kind of given up on men and I think I was like, uh men are, just the worst glad I got a good one. But like, not, not for me. And I, and I didn't spend a lot of time with them, because my studios are mostly women and then I realized how many good men there are in the world like I was meeting all these men, and they were like, emotionally aware, and like, thoughtful and like consent driven. And it just felt like this whole kind of new worlds, and I haven't dated in over a decade. So maybe, like, men grew up in that time period. But, um, like, it was just, I met so many amazing people. And, you know, now I have some who are boyfriends and, and some who are, you know, we hang out friends with benefits, but it's not like, we just fuck it's, you know, I'm really sapiosexual, which is like, attracted to people's brains. And,

Parker

Yes.

Amy Bond

And I've, I've met and rolled around kind of, in so many people's brains. And it's been so fun. And I think that romantic piece like the sexual part added on to, like, roll around in the brain then you roll around with the body like that, just like, those doesn't like the best friendships.

Parker

Totally.

Amy Bond

So, so it's been going well, it's been going great, actually. And yeah, despite the like, false start, and then we then we read the literature and kind of like, set the rules, and then kind of grew what this is together. And now we're both like, maybe someday we're going to get a house. So, we have like, multiple people who like live in our house. And,

Parker

Wow.

Amy Bond

Like, you know, yeah.

Parker

That's it.

Amy Bond

It's definitely gone from and I feel, and this is the, I think one of the most important things for me, I also feel like a truer version of myself. Like, I am a slutty person, like that is just literally, like, biologically how I'm wired to be and I think with one partner, I didn't really get to, like, tap into that. Much like, you know, and I have a higher sex drive than my husband. So, I did. You know?

Parker

Yeah.

Amy Bond

And he'd be like, oh, I'm tired, you know, and now, now I'm just like, okay, I'm gonna go hang out with Craig. See you later.

Parker

Yes.

Amy Bond

So, yeah, I feel like a truer version of myself. Like, I feel like this is my sexual orientation is to have multiple partners and that feels kind of, you know, like a game changer, as well.

Parker

Yeah, and being able, being able to live it and I love like, it's, I find that those conversations can be really hard and being able to live it with a partner who's like, open to it and supportive and like, also into it is really.

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

Like, that's relationship goals. That's really exciting.

Amy Bond

Yeah, I mean, one of my, my Hawaii boyfriends came out to our house in Portland, and me and my husband, and him, and my mom, brother all like hung out, and it was super cool.

Parker

I love it. I'm gonna pause our, our polyamory conversation here.

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

and we're gonna continue it on a, the first patron only content interview thing that we're doing.

Amy Bond

Oh I love that.

Parker

Yeah, I'm like we're gonna mix things up a little bit and do some, Patreon Patreon content.

Amy Bond

Yeah, musical chairs talk about.

Parker

Yeah, fuck it up a little bit. Well, we do, we are gonna do, I do rapid-fire questions at the end of every episode just to kind of like get to know you in a like a fast but maybe more like weird interpersonal sort of way. It's, I stole it from Brene Brown and I love Brene Brown. So,

Amy Bond

I love Brene Brown.

Parker

Her, her podcast Unlocking Us is just like, so good.

Amy Bond

So good.

Parker

Okay, are you ready for the rapid-fire questions?

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

All right. Pancakes or waffles?

Amy Bond

Waffles all the way. Belgian waffles burnt.

Parker

Yeah,

Amy Bond

[garbled]

Parker

Oh my god. I love it. The details. Salty or sweet?

Amy Bond

Definitely sweet. I would eat junk food for every meal.

Parker

So good. Cats or dogs?

Amy Bond

Cats.

Parker

Yeah.

Amy Bond

[garbled] much like lay on me.

Parker

Favorite place you've ever been?

Amy Bond

Amalfi Coast is hands down my favorite place. I was 18 when I went there and teaching English in Italy and broke, like totally broke. I was teaching English like 12 hours a day at these children's summer camps, and I made like 200 bucks a week and I was living my best life and,

Parker

Oh, that's amazing.

Amy Bond

swimming on the Amalfi Coast. Staying in like a bungalow on the beach was amazing.

Parker

That sounds magical. A book from your mandatory reading list?

Amy Bond

That we talked about, Chronology of Water. Poly-secure, I recently read is amazing. One I'm reading right now that I freaking love is Brianna Wiest. I think it's how you say your last name w i e s t, wrote a book called 101 Essays to Change the Way You Think, and it taps into a lot of zen Buddhist kind of ways of thinking. Kind of my big takeaway is like, everything you believe is a result of the reality you’ve created inside, and you are in control of what you create inside of you and that makes me feel great and free.

Parker

Yeah, yeah. At least we have control of something. Right?

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

What's inside of ourselves. Complete this sentence, for me good sex is?

Amy Bond

Consensual.

Parker

I think that's the third episode in a row that I've gotten that answer and it makes me so happy every time.

Amy Bond

It's also like, it should just be like, it, that should be just like default, but it often, and it should be fuck yeah, consent like enthusiastically consensual.

Parker

Yeah, I completely agree. Okay, what is one of your secret talents?

Amy Bond

Oh, my god what is my secret talent. Okay, so here's one. I'm not talented at it yet, but I'm going to be

Parker

Yes.

Amy Bond

I've been practicing once a week. I take an accent class with this accent coach named Paul Meyer.

Parker

Oh.

Amy Bond

And I've been learning accents from around the world so I've been working on my I've been working. Well, do you want to hear one?

Parker

Yes, I do. Yes.

Amy Bond

Okay, I lost my voice a little bit, but this is from Lisa Mona, her monologue. In My Cousin Vinnie so it's New York accent.

Parker

Oh, fuck Yes.

Amy Bond

[new york accent] A deer, a sweet innocent doe eyed, leaf eating, harmless little deer. Imagine you're a deer. You're prancing along, you get thirsty. You spot a little brook, you put your little deer lips down to the cold clear water. Bam. A fucking bullet rips off part of your head. Your brains are splattered on the ground in little bloody pieces. Now I ask ya. Would you give a fuck what kind of pants the son of a bitch who shot you is wearing?

Parker

Oh my god, also that movie. That character gives you such life.

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

That was fantastic.

Amy Bond

Thank you.

Parker

As someone who's often slips into accents all the time, that was.

Amy Bond

Oh my god do one, do one. Everyone wants to hear it.

Parker

I was reading with a friend, and I was like, I like to do British, so it was like, I don't even know. I feel like I need something to read. I'll read the back of my water bottle.

Amy Bond

Yes.

Parker

[British accent] We're here to put a flag in the ground and tell the world that a better you starts with better water. Something like that

Amy Bond

you're like, you're like fancy British. You're rich British.

Parker

Only when I'm only when I'm talking about water. Very serious.

Amy Bond

Bravo. That's so good.

Parker

Okay, a song, an artist, or an album that you're currently obsessed with.

Amy Bond

[garbled] I saw the cheerleading documentary. It's called Cheer on Netflix and there's this song by Bara Du. It's B A R A space D U and that's the name of the artist and I forgot the name of the song but I listened to that song on repeat. And it's just like, really like, effervescent, like, like I think there's like birds chirping it's amazing.

Parker

Oh, that's so awesome.

Amy Bond

Yeah.

Parker

Oh, if you had a superpower, what would it be?

Amy Bond

Hmm. I mean, I think of science as a superpower and so maybe it will be something like convincing the half of the world that doesn't believe in science to believe in it.

Parker

That is a very good one. We need that superpower to be a real thing.

Amy Bond

Right now.

Parker

And then our final rapid-fire question. What is something simple that brings you joy?

Amy Bond

I think just quiet sitting in the morning by myself, reading the newspaper is like one of my happiest parts of the day. Like with a coffee. Just sitting. Reading.

Parker

Yes. That like first cup of coffee in the morning is one of my favorites. Yeah.

Amy Bond

Oh, yeah. There's like a, now I get to read.

Parker

Well, thank you so much. We're gonna say goodbye to our listeners, and then pop on over to a conversation for our Patreon members.

Amy Bond

Awesome. It's been such a pleasure.

Parker

Thank you for joining me. Is there anything you want to share with the greater public before we go to a Patreon only interview? Before we go?

Amy Bond

Just your daily PSA that sex work is work and consensual sex work decreases child trafficking. Hey.

Parker

Hey oh, what a concept. Thank you so much and goodbye. All you listeners out there, come join us on Patreon.

Amy Bond

Bye.

Parker

Bye. And there you have it, that was the interview with Amy bond what a fucking amazing human being. It was so cool to have her on the show and talk about all the many things that she's got going on, and also just be people together was really great. All of Amy Bonds links are going to be in the show notes along with some extras that I thought might interest you, and if they don't, just ignore them. I hope you liked the cliffhanger that I left on our polyamory conversation, if you want to hear more about how to navigate creating a profile to find other like-minded people, and if you want to hear more about Amy's journey with anal training, learning that she was actually into anal and then hear me talk about pegging, join us over on Patreon. It's a really good time. It's a fun, a little more loose conversation, and it's my first Patreon only interview. So, I'm hoping to do a whole bunch more of those. I'm glad that Amy was willing to do this one. Thank you so much for listening to the show. I love that I get to create this and that it doesn't just go into the abyss though there's nothing wrong with the abyss. It just, it hits different you know? Okay, I'm really just avoiding coming up with a thing. Oh, I've been watching so much Star Trek. You'd think it would be easier for me to come up with. Yes, I'm a Star Trek person. It's a thing I've been coping with. Star Trek anytime I find myself feel not wanting to feel uncomfortable emotions, I turn to Star Trek and it causes me to feel other uncomfortable emotions. If you're on another planet and your language translator runs out of battery or fails, for whatever reason, the universal noise to indicate that you no longer understand what's happening is to put your lips together and just lackadaisically blow through them like so [raspberry sound]. But don't do it too high pitched. It might be mistaken as a mating call in some cultures. Nanu nanu motherfuckers.